Market Discussion

  • Hey there,


    I saw this realy big discussion on the Discord about the "dead" Market.


    As the Admins sad we should collect our thoughts and ideas! I think the forum is a great way to do that.


    I will list here some ideas i saw in the Discord and would be thankfully if you could join in and post your own ideas here!


    Well here are some ideas:


    -No seeling of other players breeding lines (with punishment if done)


    -Ban Gigas/Rexes from the market


    -Ban tek structures from the market


    -Ban Clones from Market


    -Wipe all gc and start again


    -add some new things to the reward vault that "soak" GC out of the system


    -only sell spayed/neutered Dinos


    -Set a price for all tek structures





    I do NOT agree with all this idea i just collect them !


    pls post your ideas so we can try together to rescue the market!


    Dani

  • Possibly could remove the sale of s+ tek structures or remove s+ tek completely from engrams as this would potentially drive up prices. Without the s+ tek players arent able to use them without doing boss fights and thus stops players having end game stuff in 1 week. Although on the otherhand this could cause players to drop prices even more if things arent selling but yet.

  • Obviously this has caused an issue in the community. I am one who sells a line which has gone around the server multiple times and if the original owner of the line asked me to stop i would, but they arent here right now so like myself many others are continuing to sell others dinos. The idea of banning/wiping/adding some form of punishment for those who sell someone elses line without CLEAR PERMISSION FROM THE OWNER that they can do so could possibly work. If the owner explicitly asks them to stop selling their lines and then 2 days later sees them on the market they would simply report them and they would be dealt with accordingly. Of course if the owner gave permission to resell the dinos then this would be an exclusion. Another thing would be the removal of selling breedable dinos from the market, and if possible maybe a mod or something else in the settings to set a block on the cloning of certain dinos, the way an s+ turret can exclude dinos. This would stop players from buying neutered lines and then cloning them to sell however things like reapers and wyverns etc should possibly be excluded from this list.


    Of course as soon as some form of rule is enforced i will happily remove dinos which arent my lines from the market and I am sure with some initiative from the community others will follow

  • Yeah the market's gotten pretty bad, but most of those solutions will probably fail. (Also quick disclaimer, these are all just my opinions, I'm no market expert, none of this is meant to be aggressive towards anyone, I just feel I have to point that out cause my serious tone made people think I was aggressive in the past when I really wasn't).


    -No selling of other player's breeding lines (with punishment if done)


    This one would be cool, but it was proposed in the past and it's really just very hard to implement. How do you constantly scour the market for it? How can you reliably prove it's someone else's breeding line? If they stack mutations on it, or introduce stats into their own breeding line, where do you draw the line and say "yes, that's their breeding line now" or "it's okay for them to sell it, they altered it enough". Stuff like that.


    -Ban gigas/rexes from the market


    I don't understand what this would achieve. It wouldn't drive up the prices of other dinos, it would only make people go out and tame their own rexes/gigas. Which is not a bad thing, it would give players things to do, but it wouldn't help the market.


    -Ban tek structures from the market


    I'm meh on this one tbh. I don't buy or sell tek structures. I also don't know what ramifications it would have. Maybe it'll help drive the sales of boss dinos and bps/items that help with that. It would probably only cause outrage though, not everyone wants to do boss fights but most people want transmitters and other tek structures/equipment for their own convenience.


    -Ban clones from market


    This one I can see shaking things up a bit. People would increase prices if they'd have to breed and raise every dino they sell. Alternatively, it could lead to people selling more eggs cheaper so they don't have to do all that. Could go either way. The only thing it would for sure "solve" is element gachas, those would be WAY more expensive if people needed to breed them instead of being able to clone them.


    -Wipe all GC and start again


    This one would cause a shitstorm like no other. I never cared much for GC, you can see that from my GC balance atm, but there's many people that have thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of GC built up, and I don't think they'd much appreciate it being erased. And imo it's not the abundance of GC that ruined the market, it's that farming got way easier over time, plus there's many big tribes now on PVE that are into the endgame and can afford to drop prices on everything. Tek prices plummeted when Extinction and Element Veins were introduced, for example.


    -Add things to the reward vault that soak GC out of the system


    Like what? Some things were introduced into the vault recently, but idk how well they're selling. I have a few suggestions to make regarding the vault, but I'll save those for later. They're heavily based in my own experiences and preferences, so it might all be crap.


    -Only sell spayed/neutered dinos


    This would help with the whole "breeding lines" dilemma. But problems arise when you consider that people would want imprints on the dinos they buy. If everyone plays fair, and either gives baby dinos back to the seller after claiming them so the seller can neuter them, or they neuter them themselves after claiming, this would work. But people don't always play fair. What we'd need for this to work would be an easy and free way of transferring either dino ownership or imprints. As in I hatch a dino, claim it myself, neuter it, give it to the buyer, and the "claim" moves to them so they can imprint it on themselves. Just an idea though.


    -Set a price for all tek structures


    This would probably fail. It's hard to regulate a market like that, especially a free one. Markets tend to settle to the lowest possible prices over time, and that's what's happening to our market right now. Maybe it would work, I'm not saying it wouldn't, but I personally don't think it will.

  • i have put up this topic of, disabling cloners and only sell spayed\nuetered dinos to be discussed by admin team, i would happily remove all dinos not spayed, or my own line from AH if some rule to prevent others selling them too was enforced.

  • Right now there is a few issues on the server that should be addressed :


    (Too) Low prices on dinos.


    (Way too) Low prices on structures, especially tek.


    (Too) Many people selling other peoples lines.


    (Too) Many aggressive behaviours, here i'm talking about people not respecting eachother, stealing from eachtoher in the CHRISTMAS EVENT that should have been a fun time for everyone and became a f*cking mess due to toxicity.


    Just so you get an idea of how much the server changes, back in the days, a transmitter would cost approximately 120GC now > 7GC

    Just so you get an idea of how much the server changes, back in the days, a breedable 42 melee Giga would cost approximately 200/300GC now > 10GC or Free

    Just so you get an idea of how much the server changes, back in the days, a breedable 45 melee Rex would cost approximately 150GC now > 10GC or Free



    This is a massive change and for my point of view not for the better.


    The cheaper the dinos get, less people are now interested in breeding lines, they rather sell others hard work which is for me the WORST thing here, people don't care about others, people don't play together but against each other, in term of prices fight and lines stealing.


    I have no idea if there is a mod to track dinos lines so we can prevent people from selling them if the owners dont want to or even to create a rule that could state "If a proof of an agreement between 2 players have been made not to sell/give the purchased dinos, and this agreement isn't respected, a ban will be issued"


    We should all discuss solutions together as this is affecting more or less everyone on the PVE cluster.


    Waiting for your suggestions and point of views on this im now off to the cinema ! Can't wait to read your thoughts for a better futur for our cluster !

  • I realy appreciate your comments to that!

    Maybe share your Ideas for the Reward Vault so we could discuss them too.

  • So for some suggestions of my own, here goes.


    -Decrease/limit how much element can be farmed on Extinction. Veins are OP and stupid easy to do, and I can craft like 10-20 transmitters after doing one. This would drive up the prices of anything element related. Downside is that it would possibly be hard to implement, and it would mean people would have to grind more, which could anger the community.


    -Limit gachas somehow. Besides making element easier to farm, they make other tek tier resources stupid easy to farm too. Like black pearls, which you need tons of for tek tier items and structures. I'm not saying a complete nerf, black pearls are a PITA to farm otherwise in the large quantities you sometimes need, but make it a bit harder.


    -Lock extinction so the tek stuff stays contained to it. Inward transfers would still be enabled so you can take stuff there, but you can't bring stuff out. Maybe make dinos and certain items exceptions (this would require some mods I'm pretty sure, I don't think it's possible in vanilla ark to only block certain items from transfers) like tek armor for example, that can't be sold because you need the tek engram unlocked to use it, and maybe BPs.


    -Ban trading outside of the auction house, and set minimum prices in the auction house. This would give the admins some control over the market, but it could also lead to "underground" or "black markets" to pop up.


    All of the things I've proposed here are extreme, I know, but if you want to solve the market collapse you have to go to the roots of the problem. Wildcard made farming an unbalanced joke, like they do with everything else in PVE.


    Overall, the market is really hard to regulate and control, and I for one think it's impossible or at the very least a HUGE headache. The owners always said that they won't try to do it, and I understand why. The sheer manpower and hours upon hours they'd need to sink into it is something that they can't afford.

  • Here are some of my ideas towards the Reward vault.


    They could be added to get GC out of the System.


    -Random lvled dinos for cheaper prices. (example. Giga price is 200 for 225 so maybe for 50 gc u could get a random lvl. But giga is a bad example at this point)


    -Random Weapon/Armor/saddle for higher price then 35


    -Bps maybe even max bps for HUGE amounts like 2000 (could be realy unbalanced)


    -Resscources


    -Kosmetik skins


    Those are just random ideas i thought about some of them are hard to balance i know.

  • For the vault to be competitive, and actually soak GC out of the system, it needs to offer items/services that players can't and at affordable prices that encourage players to use it. Again, same disclaimer applies: these are all my owm opinions, not facts. They're shaped by my experiences and my experiences alone. Some, maybe all, could be stupid and easy to prove wrong, in which case please do so if you can. And none of it is supposed to be aggressive towards anyone, so please ignore any aggression you might percieve.


    -Dinos.


    In my opinion, most dinos sold in the vault have no place in it. With rare exceptions like the phoenix or reapers, that are very hard to tame for most people, dinos like wyverns, drakes, gigas, etc, are useless to buy. They're too expensive, you don't know what you get, and you're better off taming them from the wild.


    My suggestion: remove the tamed ones and leave only the wild ones to buy. Make them cheap, and guarantee a certain level. I can get 9 GC per day from voting, so I'm not about to pay 200 GC for a giga in the vault when I can go out and tame a decent one in a fraction of the time it would take me to get that GC through voting. If I could buy a wild giga for that 9 GC, and I knew it was lvl 150, I'd be more inclined to buy it than hunt for a wild 150 for a day or two. Yes, I'd still have to tame it, but it would be convenient.


    -Items.


    Items are, once again, expensive for what they offer. They're nowhere near the clamp, you're much better off farming for BPs or buying items from others. Much like the dinos, I don't see a point in having items in the vault. This applies to armor, saddles, tek structures, etc. And I don't see a way to make them desirable. Either they'll be too expensive and make players buy from others instead of the vault, or they'll be too cheap and make the market collapse further.


    -Services and special items.


    This applies to the new things introduced via the GD mod. The superstim, the imprint gun, etc. These are VERY useful, but again they're too expensive. In the time it would take me to gather the GC for an imprint gun, which is one time use, I can imprint hundreds of gigas myself. Especially now since we can easily put imprinting on pause with soul balls or cryopods.


    Here's my final opinion, and I know it will be very divisive and angering: the vault can't be fixed, GC can't be fixed, and the market in general can't be fixed. With the current setup, rates, mods, and attitudes from both the community and owners, that's impossible. Again, this is not an attack or aggression, it's simply an opinion. The market needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, rules need to be set in place and enforced, things need to be changed and limited, it would be a lot of work. Balance in ARK PVE is completely broken.

  • Here's my final opinion, and I know it will be very divisive and angering: the vault can't be fixed, GC can't be fixed, and the market in general can't be fixed. With the current setup, rates, mods, and attitudes from both the community and owners, that's impossible. Again, this is not an attack or aggression, it's simply an opinion. The market needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, rules need to be set in place and enforced, things need to be changed and limited, it would be a lot of work. Balance in ARK PVE is completely broken.

    I share this opinion, but atm i rly think about what could be changed to regulate the syste in a way it cannot be so simply broken. Aslong as their are some black sheeps this will not work i think.

  • -No seeling of other players breeding lines (with punishment if done) - The price for a breeding line should be REALY HIGH instead - 300-400GC++


    -Ban Gigas/Rexes from the market - No


    -Ban tek structures from the market - No


    -Ban Clones from Market - No


    -Wipe all gc and start again - Hell No


    -add some new things to the reward vault that "soak" GC out of the system - It's already done to some point


    -only sell spayed/neutered Dinos - The seller has to choose that


    -Set a price for all tek structures - The marketplace freedom will go to hell..instead set a critical minimum price for all the available TEK items a.k.a Tek Regulation to a certain degree...but again it will set the price to be as the minimum provided..so not really NO :)


    = The only solution is people's morale

  • I find that most restrictive ideas given here would hurt more than heal.

    Anyone that knows the game and passed the starting phase on the cluster would hardly build any interest in crafted saddles or neutered animals. I would never buy 18 rexes or 20 saddles for a boss fight. Given the rates on the cluster is pointless. But a breeding pair or a BP is always welcome for a wide amount of reasons.


    If the market is bad now it would be worse if regulated as people are suggesting. I can see it getting really boring pretty fast.

    Things are cheap because they got cheap. Server rates, recurrent breeding and official events . Anything easier makes stuff cheaper and the cheapness piles up each event or month played .In Ark, longer you play easier it gets. And as far as I know we got a fairly old population in the cluster. Every month a players plays in the cluster stuff gets easier for him and consequently cheaper.


    I agree with the need for GC sinkers , thats the most sane and fair way to follow. That would help alot, maybe an reduction on GC rewards from voting too if its really needed to reduce the GC in the game.

    We need to keep in mind that the utility for GC is very high when starting, but its inevitable to get depreciated and stocked as players progress. If we cut off from the market what is interesting there, more coins will be stocked and less value it would have. The coins need to move instead of getting stuck in someone purse because the market got over regulated and boring.

    Anything that can affect big coin/bar fortunes would hit really hard who floats around the 0-200 coins.

  • I share this opinion, but atm i rly think about what could be changed to regulate the syste in a way it cannot be so simply broken. Aslong as their are some black sheeps this will not work i think.

    That's simply the thing, a free and competitive market will settle to the lowest possible prices. Everyone wants to sell, so they'll make their prices lower than their competitor's. I guarantee you that trasmitters could drop to one GC this way and people would still sell. The only real solution to stop prices from going down is to regulate the market and set minimum prices, but that takes out the freedom part. Everyone would sell at that minimum price, like Bone said, and with that the competitiveness would be out the window too.


    And the thing is, price drops are GOOD for buyers. They're only bad for sellers.

  • Okay here's my final opinion/idea. Same disclaimer as for my previous posts apply, this is a personal opinion, so on and so forth.


    Players trading for GC was a mistake. GC builds up instead of being used in crafts, building, etc, like resources would, and so its value drops with time. People trade not because they need it and intend to use it, but because they want to see those numbers rise. When people traded for resources I saw more players trade because they needed metal, hide, cementing paste, crystal, etc, which they would use up as soon as they got them. There was a time when you could go on rag with 5k metal and leave with a wyvern egg or two. It also meant less endgame tribes engaged in trading, they didn't need the resources, and the market was a bit more stable.


    So here's a possible fix: disallow trading for GC and arkbars except for in the vault and for buying events. And the events need to be reworked too, to encourage those with large tribes and GC reserves to donate to them.


    But my prediction is this: everything will stay the same and the market will fall further. Pesimistic, I know, but it's the truth. Everyone wants their cake and they want to eat it too.


    But I also have a few questions for the big names in trading.


    Mschmidi

    Dia

    Bossmob

    Chris@Arkenoids

    ThumperMan007

    BraveToTheBone


    What's your imputs? Why are you into trading, what do you want to get out of it? How do you use the GC you get? You guys are the biggest sellers on the PVE cluster, and I think we can get a better understanding of the situation and maybe glimpse possible solutions from you. I for one am a small fry in this situation, I rarely sell or buy stuff, so I'm sure I don't understand the situation and the end goal as much as you all do. If you don't want to comment or participate that's perfectly fine of course, but I think we could benefit from your opinions.

  • "And the thing is, price drops are GOOD for buyers. They're only bad for sellers."

    True, but we not talking about buyers, or sellers here, we talking about the whole market, the server itself.


    So do you think it's good that after 2 days of voting someone can have a breeding pair of 49 melee giga + 1 transmitter ?


    I don't think so

  • True, but we not talking about buyers, or sellers here, we talking about the whole market, the server itself.


    So do you think it's good that after 2 days of voting someone can have a breeding pair of 49 melee giga + 1 transmitter ?


    I don't think so

    That's not good, of course. I'm not gonna pretend it is. But like I said I'm a small fry in all of this, I rarely sell things and I even rarely buy.

  • What's your imputs? Why are you into trading, what do you want to get out of it? How do you use the GC you get? You guys are the biggest sellers on the PVE cluster, and I think we can get a better understanding of the situation and maybe glimpse possible solutions from you. I for one am a small fry in this situation, I rarely sell or buy stuff, so I'm sure I don't understand the situation and the end goal as much as you all do. If you don't want to comment or participate that's perfectly fine of course, but I think we could benefit from your opinions.

    I sell for a price I deem fair considering the time I have to invest to get the sold item/ dinos etc. If someone sells lower than I do, so be it, not gonna go lower.

    As for the use of the GC: There is nothing in the reward vault I'd need. So it's mainly horded in case someone sells something I want and doesn't take ressources for it.