Changes to combat logging

  • Hey folks,


    As I am sure most of you have experienced, combat logging can be the worst thing to happen on the server. It can happen right away or even hours into a raid, rendering the attacker unable to complete the raid and get any loot.


    As all big raids have to be online the current way of dealing with combat logging really discourages any form large pvp. Yes the offender always recieves a warning however the attacker recieves no compensation for the time invested or resources. Couple this with popcorning and it makes for a pretty soul destroying experience when it occurs.


    My suggestion is simply that if someone combat logs, when available, an admin grants access to the combat loggers base to the attacker. In my opinion it has no place in the cluster. It is dealt well extremely well by admins, the combat logging tribe is always punished but the attacker never gets any benefits. If the tribe knew that if they logged their stuff would be automatically lost maybe this could end people doing it.


    I understand in some cases some tribes do not purposely combat log and of course in situations like this it should be treated differently.


    Let me know what you think.

  • We Spent 5-6hours raiding someone on rag the other day, the amount of abuse we received was unreal. but then the worse thing happened. they had around 5 turrets left to soak. They uncryod all there dinos. Then said good luck in 15min then they logged. leaving us to pack up and go... its a complete joke. we dont spend all that time to walk away with nothing. nor do we play the game to get slated or even insulted . I think if they knew they would lose it if they combat log It would make them think twice before doing so.


    But i remember my IRL friend combat logged. "Connor" opened the base up to the attacker. so it is possible. but it just means the admins have alot more work on there hands to keep ontop of it all.

  • I have been on PvP cluster since December. Never raided anyone. Why can't we all just share some love 8o <3


    From what I've seen, tho, here are few ideas why people combat log.


    • Constantly being picked on and not being able to rebuild. Some people ask & very well deserve it, but not all
    • Raiding at wrong time. Hey, people have real life as well. They might have played for 2 or 3 hours and they gotta pack for work, you showed up at the wrong time. Can as well be used as an excuse, but there is also that possibility.
    • 5 hour raid? That is just insane. No matter how hardcore any of us is, that is just way too much if you ask me. If you cant break a base in 2 hours, I believe you shouldn't be breaking it at all. That's pretty close to the long raiding rule. It sucks that you almost got to their base and they left in the very end, but hey, 5 hours. That's a lot. Players waste valuable time in which they could have been doing many different things, but they have to sit in base and protect it for 5 hours. IMO, that's just insane. This is why unofficial servers exist. People got tired of that crap. You probably played on officials like most of us. This is why most of us chose to come here. I get it, it's PvP, but even with many well made rules, you just can't blame someone for having to leave, IF they have to. Hell, even if they don't have to, having a raid that long, that's just crazy. Nobody really wants to sit in their base and do the same thing for 5 hours.
    • The timer alone. Why not give a higher number a try if people complain often. 30 minutes, see how it goes. Not much, but could still help in cases like this.


    Just the way I see it. I did no raiding so far, but that's the way I see it. Also, keep in mind. You said you were soaking someones base for 5 hours. You are not the only one that is losing there. Imagine all the ammo defender lost. What did you lose? Few dinos you planned to lose? Nothing too important, no? Raising a new tank takes less time than filling all those turrets does. With a decent line in your base, you don't even have to think or do much to get a new tank.


    :?:

  • When a base is large 5 hour raids are not crazy at all. The timer used to be 30 minutes and was abused hard. People now have 3 days to build up from all tribes not just the raider which is more than enough time to build.


    It is pvp i don't think we should make excuses for combat logging and instead tackle it as wrong doing and abusing orp.

  • If someone has 150turrets capped with 9k bullets. there is no way you could soak all that within 2hours. a raid takes as long as it takes. if they had to go they could of surrendered, instead they combat logged which is breaking the rules. so there should a higher punishment.

  • If they dont wana spend 5h defending then they can surender same thing if they have to leav , they can still sundernder and if the raiders accsept the surender ( why shouldent you accsept it and not waist more time and resurces to break in ) Then they unlock all structures and the raiders grab what they feel they want insted of logging of and not playing by the rules

  • I agree with Major Tom.


    We are a duo building up in this server so it is quite common in our tribe to have only one player connected. If I log in to check on my dinos 15 min before going to work and someone decides to raid me at that moment I'm going to have to log out no matter what. Being admin wiped in this scenario seems insane to me. If this is how the rule is applied then we probably should move on and look for another server.


    It is the first time I play with ORP soI'm probably less experienced dealing with this kind of problems, but I wanted to leave my opinion in case it is helpful for someone else.

  • Nobody mentioned admin wiped, i said the raider should be compensated. Imagine spending hours of your time to raid and someone just logs out? If a tribe takes the time to fob and raid and the defending tribe combat logs to defend then that is an issue right there.


    Seems an attitude issue towards abusing orp being okay. It is a PvP server if you don't want to pvp go play pve. The option of surrender is there and if you are logging in solo and are vulnerable that is an issue with your tribe not the fault of the raider. Currently there is way too many options for a defender and nothing for an attacker.

  • Dotrc pretty much sums it up nicely tho.


    If a man just wants to get on to do imprint and get off, I believe he has the right to do so. Go play PvE is just a silly statement. To sum it up even more, this is PvPvE. It has both elements in the game. Therefore, being punished just because you showed up to, lets say do an imprint and go out, THAT is silly.

  • A tribe has to get stuff ready, setup a fob and raid in that time someone is imprinting I just can't see your scenario happening. This is based on a year of experience these pvp servers. The amount of combat logging that occurs is crazy and right now the current way of dealing with it discourages any form of large raids. People can popcorn, upload, port out etc. And the option to combat log is there. You get a warning but so what? The raider could have been there for hours, you take a warning on the chin but you seen how they will raid you, where your weak points are, you can be more alert to not be online when they are. Not being given anything in these situations takes a lot of fun out of raiding.


    These scenarios are based on larger raids in my experience not solo/duo small tribes.

  • Tbh you dont just play PVP just to imprint dinos. if that was the case then PVE is there.... PVP is all about raiding and open world pvp. Your point on "im coming on to imprint" is just stupid. theses people my tribe raided had near 300hours since the new server. they where some serious players. not just your average bob^


    There needs to be a punishment for combat logging. not just a verbal warning. thats just pointless and that is why the combat logging is on the rise.


    Also when we raided theses people it took us around 40min to get all the gear and everything together then we had to setup the fob. so your looking at about an hour before the raid even started. if they logged out in that time a massive rip on our part. but to spend hours in a raid. and once finaly nearly in they log? woudnt you be pissed? woudnt want a bigger punishment? its not just about the dinos or the ress we lost. its the time we invested into getting into there base. we was there for "loot" but instead we was greeted by a timer..... after 5hours.

    your also saying a raid shoudnt take longer then 2hours.... have you tried to soak turrets? 150turrets spread around the base you rlooking at about 4hours of constant soaking before they are empty...

  • I can see the concerns of both parties here but for the guys saying "i wanna log in to do an imprint and log out" doesnt apply to you at all. I think the main issue of combat logging is between "bigger" tribes therefor bigger raids.

    Just to set an example i will use our experience 2 days ago.


    We saw them online and we started getting raid , we expected a 3v4 - 4v4 situation so we wanted to be fully prepared.For 30mins we were transfering stuff so we can have everything ready for the fob and we sent 2 guys to build the fob while the other 2 were ready to transfer supplies to the fob.During that "preparation" period if they had logged out it would be 100% our fault- too slow to get ready.That didnt happen , our 2 guys with the basic fob stuff got found and had to fight and win 2v3 just to get the fob down. Then we proceeded to push their base . Even tho we were getting constantly getting insane insults we kept going and ignored them. after 5ish hours we were inside their cave with their last small turret tower left standing. Then they proceeded to just insult us more and say " have fun finishing this raid in 15mins".

    We already made a ticket about it and im sure admins will handle it.

    The reasoning behind i explained this is just to give you an example to understand the disappointment that us or anyone with similar situation feels.
    Even if they do a get a warning , which is insanely serious (Not trying to de-value the punishment) , or even banned or admin-wiped, The attacker has ZERO benefit or compensation for what he lost and time investment.(In a raid both parties lose stuff , dinos bullets weapons armour ). i could even argue that the raider loses even more when the defender that combat logged gets admin-wiped/banned cause that way there is no "beef" - back and forth fights and rivalries.(In my opinion that hinders the server as well)

    To address this :

    • 5 hour raid? That is just insane. No matter how hardcore any of us is, that is just way too much if you ask me. If you cant break a base in 2 hours, I believe you shouldn't be breaking it at all. That's pretty close to the long raiding rule. It sucks that you almost got to their base and they left in the very end, but hey, 5 hours. That's a lot. Players waste valuable time in which they could have been doing many different things, but they have to sit in base and protect it for 5 hours. IMO, that's just insane. This is why unofficial servers exist. People got tired of that crap. You probably played on officials like most of us. This is why most of us chose to come here. I get it, it's PvP, but even with many well made rules, you just can't blame someone for having to leave, IF they have to. Hell, even if they don't have to, having a raid that long, that's just crazy. Nobody really wants to sit in their base and do the same thing for 5 hours.

    A heavy turret in our Cluster has 18 slots of bullets thats 500(bullets) x 18 = 9k bullets (In my opinion this is the ideal number)

    A heavy will shoot 1k bullets in around 1min 30 secs - 1mins 30 secs x 9 = around 14mins to soak a slotcapped heavy

    A base with 150 turrets (the turret limit) and living in a cave so in order to get to their main part u prolly need to go through all 150 and assuming u are soaking 10 heavies at a time thats 14mins x 10 = 140mins (2h 20mins) of UNINTERRUPTED soaking.

    So yeah its perfectly normal for a raid to take hours. Also u said " If you cant break a base in 2 hours, I believe you shouldn't be breaking it at all. "
    So any base with 150 -200 ammo capped heavies is "safe heaven" ?

    Your point is invalid unfortunately and completely unrealistic.
    Sorry for the long post but i wanted to give as much input and context to what im saying.

    All n all i think the server settings/harvesting/turret slots and all that is as perfect as it gets and i give props to the admins for manually tuning down S+ mod so we dont have ridiculous stuff and their really good support on pvp matters. With that said i think the attackers are discouraged to raid "fair" bigger tribes due to the many ways ppl can popcorn/despawn their loot, so ORP abusing just adds to their many ways of "getting around" a raid/wipe. Having an admin to log in and unlock their stuff and give the attacker a certain amount of time to loot what they want with maybe some restrictions sounds ideal to me.

  • Does this mean in your sitaution as solo or duo tribes that your are exempt from the rules and see it that you can combat log by the way?

    In fact I am stating the opposite. I said that if this is how the rule is applied then I should probably look out for another server. I'm exposing my situation here because if there is enough players in the same situation then maybe the rule should be reviewed. Many of us moved out of official servers because we can't defend 24/7, if we should be prepared for a 5h long raid at any time then we'll have same problem here.


    This rule can also be abused. You could study a tribe's schedule and raid at specific times. Most of us play at the same hours every day.

  • dotrc I can see your point of view , but can u see ours? Dont you think its a ridiculous and completely unrealistic to say "if you have a base that cant be raided in 2-3h u are perfectly safe " ?

    Especially with the rule that the defender gets 3 days of raid protection after a raid , successful or not , i cant see any other way of raiding a big tribe/base without having to spend a lot of hours.
    An alternative could be to "extend" a siege over few days but thats unrealistic as well , the defender wont log in or the attacker cant be there 24/7 waiting for the defender to logs back in.

    I would really like to see your alternative/solution.

  • dotrc I can see your point of view , but can u see ours? Dont you think its a ridiculous and completely unrealistic to say "if you have a base that cant be raided in 2-3h u are perfectly safe " ?

    Especially with the rule that the defender gets 3 days of raid protection after a raid , successful or not , i cant see any other way of raiding a big tribe/base without having to spend a lot of hours.
    An alternative could be to "extend" a siege over few days but thats unrealistic as well , the defender wont log in or the attacker cant be there 24/7 waiting for the defender to logs back in.

    I would really like to see your alternative/solution.

    I do, I get your point and I think it's legit as hell. I'm not arguing against it, I just wanted to share a different point of view.

  • I do also think that something would be better than the current situation, i don't necessarily an admin intervention to unlock / open bases or reward people is the answer, but a possible interim action.


    When you take Poggers as an example, spending 5 hours of their time and a LOT of their resources and tames in order to progress and successfully raid MANEA, for them to combat log when they get to their main base just isn't fair. And i disagree that 5 hours is too long, that is the physical time it takes and took for them to be raided, the only way to reduce this would be to increase the fire rate of the turrets 10x fold, which is not realistic.


    Could something not be done with some form of automatic ORP, for example if 10x structures get blown up (Or whatever the desired threshold would be) then ORP wont be activated?


    I disagree with people logging on for 10 minutes to do an inprint being a 'thing' a 10 minute window is no where near enough to be prepped and check that someone is online, unless you offline FOB then, which is against the server rules. If you are on for 30+ mins, but only intending to inprint, then you are on a PVP server and don't expect not to be a target you, with all due respect should honestly just play PVE if you want to just build a base and inprint but not get salty about being raided..


    Just my 2 cents.

  • I don't play PvP (I am planning to at some point when i am bored of PvE) - however what if there was a mod that made it so that you cannot log off within a certain time period of one of your tribe / structures being damaged or your turrets firing?


    There was a similar system in DayZ - if you took damage you couldn't log off for a couple minutes


    This would involve a mod being custom made and i don't even know if the game will allow it but may be worth investigating if you have the technical knowledge